Five Things E22: Char Grill Franchising with Ed Yancey
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[Music]
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the truth is adding value will never go
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out of style
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hello and thanks for joining us for
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another five things podcast today we've
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got a longtime friend at Yancey who's
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been in franchising business ownership
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for a long time banking in the past
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which I just learned this morning it's a
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cold rainy Raleigh North Carolina day
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here and that I watched security brand
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ascent media headquarters so thank you
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so much for dropping in and joining us
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thank you Brian for having me here and
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look at board you know Ed's uh it's one
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of those guys speaking for me personally
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you know you meet ed the first time you
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just like them just a a good guy that
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I've never heard anybody talk bad about
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you except for maybe Sean you haven't
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met my wife you think that's funny I'm
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joking about Sean but other than that
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where'd you grow up at right here in
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North Carolina born and raised yes I was
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born in Smithfield North Carolina moved
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to Greenville when I was about five and
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stayed there till 15 and then we moved
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to Raleigh so I went to high school
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right up the street here at Millbrook
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high school okay turn around and went
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back to Greenville for college and got
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out of college in 85 and went to work
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for Wachovia Bank if if you've ever gone
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to ECU you own you owe ed a lot of
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thank-yous because he started the trend
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definitely started the trend and so
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graduate college yes and went right into
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banking and was in banking for about
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eight or nine years but I was always
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entrepreneurial some banking was a
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little bit of a straightjacket you know
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it was a lot of process and Loan
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administration but I you know I got to
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see a lot of businesses SBA lending was
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my specialty at the bank because that's
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kind of how I got into franchising
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because I got to see a lot of franchise
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concepts at an early age and how well
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they performed and it just got my gears
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turning is it related to franchising
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nice so you always had that itch when
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you were in corporate America absolutely
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you kind of knew that there was a
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restlessness inside of you absolutely
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and I think that you know honestly I
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think most people that are
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entrepreneurial or self-employed you
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feel kind of suffocated in that
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environment have
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while that's right that's right and for
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all the good things I liked about the
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military I felt absolutely suffocated
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that I just couldn't leave or quit or
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write you know I could look at a little
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chart and say you know if I do this for
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20 years I'm gonna make X yeah you know
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even if I'm the best at what I do it's
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it's really limited right so that's
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great to know so you get into banking
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you're seeing business and all this kind
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of stuff as far as family goes how'd you
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meet your new bride so I met my wife in
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Greenville I had just started working at
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the bank and she was at East Carolina
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University she had been there just a
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year and we met and we dated for many
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years she left school and also went into
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banking as well so we dated for about
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eight years before we finally married
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you know ten five and have four children
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beautiful kids okay a lot smarter and
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better kids and I was when I was their
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age so that's awesome got a great family
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and you got a young rock star coming up
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right I got a couple of rock stars but
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both of my songs were very accomplished
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guitarist my oldest son who's 18 is at
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Appalachian State right now he's been on
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a couple different bands put out a
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couple of EPS he's actually playing a
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gig this weekend and in Chapel Hill so
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he gets around and makes the circuit and
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they got a good following that's awesome
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yeah what he's obviously passionate
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about it oh yeah that's what he's
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studying at Appalachian music production
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and music business side of music that's
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awesome yeah need to connect you with a
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friend of mine Khmer Jack's and her sons
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of you know all about the guitar right
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real is really just constantly you know
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but that's awesome I didn't realize you
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had four as well two girls and two boys
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okay yeah expensive yeah so so you get
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married you're you start your your first
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venture doing one so when I was at the
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bank you know as I mentioned it was an
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SBA lender specialist most bankers don't
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like that program because it's a
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government-backed program but it's where
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the bank puts their risky deals like
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restaurants hotels etc so you know I got
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to look at a lot of the PLS on
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restaurant concepts and I always knew
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that I wanted to own a rest
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I just have the hospitality gene and I
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one day was out with my girlfriend now
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my wife we were over on the east side of
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Raleigh and we stopped in at Oakland
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Capital Boulevard at a shopping center
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to get something to eat cuz I was
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looking for a place to live and she was
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like what do you want to eat and I said
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you choose and she chose Jersey Mike's
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Subs and it was the first Jersey Mike's
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in North Carolina it was the about the
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sixteenth Jersey Mike's in the country I
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hate the product fell in love with it
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saw that they were franchising so I
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reached out to Jersey Mike's and I
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bought a franchise I was the second
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franchisee in North Carolina and the
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18th franchisee in their system nice one
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of the cool things about Jersey Mike's
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at that time because it was so small and
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young I got to know the the founder and
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the owner of Peter cancro who still owns
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it today we're still very close Peter
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and I hit it off really well and we
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opened up our restaurant it was very
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successful it's right over here on
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Creedmoor Road in North Raleigh and we
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just had a lot of people that were
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interested in Jersey Mike's this is 1993
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a lot of people started getting
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interested in Jersey Mike's and so Peter
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would have them call me I was still
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working at the bank when I opened up the
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restaurant Peter would have them reach
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out to me and I'd have them come to the
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bank they'd sit in the office like you
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and I are doing right now we talked
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about franchising they needed financing
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and so I knew how to do the SBA programs
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faster than both sides of anxiety so I
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started creating business plans and it
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was kind of a turnkey you'd come in and
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you'd want financing I do your business
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plan your projections get all of your
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personal information put it together in
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the SBA package all the forms hand it to
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you so now you take it back to your bank
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and it became a rubber stamp we just
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started doing a lot of deals so
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throughout the 90s you know I I was at
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the bank for a year and we were doing a
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lot of these these transactions and I
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finally said Peter I don't want to work
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the rest of my life in the bank so he
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made me the first area director so I got
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to share in the royalties in the
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franchise fees anything that grew in
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North Carolina and we had a great run we
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opened up 110 restaurants throughout the
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90s I owned and operated 14 restaurants
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here in North Carolina
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in 2001 we pretty much maxed out on
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development in the metro areas so I sold
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my contract back to Jersey Mike's I had
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five restaurants at the time and decided
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that you know it's just gonna focus on
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the next chapter of my life but Peter
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reached out and said why don't you move
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to New Jersey so we packed the family up
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moved to New Jersey and I headed up
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franchising in New Jersey for about five
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years okay but um but it was a great
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experience so we went from 17
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restaurants to about 400 when I finally
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left Jersey Mike's and I was awesome and
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again I you know every time I go there
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get the big old Italian I mean I love
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that thing gotta get the juice on it
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he had def : burger yeah yeah and
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oregano making me hungry thinking about
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it but from 17 to 400 that's awesome yes
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and but usually you know what do you
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without jumping in our topics let me
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rephrase that I won't go there because I
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don't want to jump right into the topic
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what uh let me ask you this what do you
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think that has happened in the past that
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you've learned from that was maybe a
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negative situation at the time well I
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mean in my life I've had over 20
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restaurants I have two today lots of
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garbage to deal with when you have to
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absolute so I mean I've made I've made
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some mistakes location wise you know
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picking the wrong spot I've made
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mistakes people wise and you know so you
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learn from those and you you get wiser
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but you know the restaurant business is
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a very difficult business but you know
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if you have a successful restaurant it's
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very rewarding but you know trying to
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you know navigate through those waters
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you know can be can be somewhat
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challenging mm-hmm I can see that it's a
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very competitive industry and personally
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I think when when the economy shifts you
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know restaurants are probably in danger
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a little bit because you know that's
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disposable convenient expenses I would
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think it is and yet the the restaurant
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business today I mean I'm sure every
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business owner says is it's much
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different than it was you know 26 years
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ago when I got started in it you know
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now you have third party which is just a
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complete game changer in the restaurant
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industry where you've got
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your grub hubs your post mates your
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mover eats and most restaurant tours
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don't have a choice they have to
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participate in third-party delivery
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because if they don't then their
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competitors are gonna mm-hmm
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be doing it and it's it's a very
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expensive platform mm-hmm well it's no
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different than Toys R Us didn't want to
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get out on the internet and so they're
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no longer around exactly you know and so
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that's a great learning lesson is that
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as business owners we have to constantly
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add adapt and improve and you know at
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the end of the day we have to cater to
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the client right know if we don't we
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can't take care of employees we can't
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take care of the baby which is the
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business absolutely so you better pay
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attention to your client you better
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serve them and you better make it
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convenient and the one of the things
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Gary Vaynerchuk says that I love he says
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the reduce the friction you know he's
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talking about absorbing his content he
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wants to eliminate friction so if you
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want to read it listen to it watch a
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video you know he wants to create
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content every way he can for media and
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for for his brand but it's really the
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same thing with a business yeah
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absolutely so those are some negative
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things you've learned from talking to
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employees you know there's a real real
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big let's say the $15 minimum wage sure
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and honestly when I think of the like I
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honestly I don't have anybody that I pay
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for less than 15 an hour but I'm a
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different business I don't own a
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restaurant right you know if I did own a
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restaurant you know looking from the
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outside in like there's not a whole lot
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of people in a restaurant that you're
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gonna deserve better than 15 bucks an
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hour
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right you know you lower the fries you
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click the little timer you push them up
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three shakes of the salt I mean that's
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not a it's not a skilled position but
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that being said coming coming from the
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horse's mouth if you know my and the
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horse here I mean another problem you
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know when one of my favorite sayings
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this is when you provide maximum effort
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and you then you're never gonna have to
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worry about minimum wage right so from a
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business owner that is historically
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paying a low wage to two workers
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upon entry what would you say to those
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workers no I mean you're 100% correct
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you know the reality in America is
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minimum wage is definitely on the rise I
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mean I you know I've worked at a lot of
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different concepts the mountain country
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I'm working from with one out of Boston
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right now and you know minimum wage in
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Boston's 13 class concept I was with was
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out of LA $15 an hour in LA
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I've told you know my managers you know
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that that's just I understand you know
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we can't start people at $7.25 an hour
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anymore we have to pay a little bit
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better wage mm-hmm and what we try to
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you know do set the expectations when
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we're interviewing people that you my
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primary concern as you mentioned of
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dropping the fries and put the salt on
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that that's important that's a task but
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to me it's more about the guest
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experience and that's what I hammer home
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with my managers and with the hourly
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folks when we have meetings as that
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whatever you're doing whatever task
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that's not nearly as important as the
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guest in the restaurant so don't you
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know ignore the guest because you feel
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like you have to get your tasks done
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first you drop everything if the guest
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needs assistance if they have a problem
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or challenge I tell everybody you're
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empowered to make refunds you know make
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the guests happy don't ever let them
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leave dissatisfied because yeah I don't
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want a customer's money if they feel
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like they didn't get the money's won
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from me you know I'll be willing to eat
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that so we do reward the employees that
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demonstrate the hospitality Jean as I
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mentioned earlier because we feel like
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that's invaluable so and what any kind
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of feeds on itself so if I have managers
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at that instill and coach that and then
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we have our leads that also do it the
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others around you know all ships rise
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sure yeah so I guess the point would be
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that when you work hard and you've got
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the right attitude
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you're gonna be more valuable to the
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employer that's exactly right so you
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know those people and I guess that's
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where the debate comes in I guess is
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that to me as a business owner when I
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have someone that I value I don't want
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to lose them and part of the probably
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part of the not being able to get away
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with minimum wage is supply
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- man there's so many openings for jobs
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now because the economy is so great that
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to attract a good caliber person as a
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business owner we're willing to pay more
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to get that good quality person in and
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that's the beautiful thing it's supply
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and demand right you know in my opinion
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you don't have to necessarily legislate
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that when things are good because you
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know we want the best people we can have
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because then our clients are gonna have
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a better experience you're absolutely
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right you know we're at a 50-year love
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for unemployment right now so every
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retailer restaurant
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clothing store you name it is all trying
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to attract that diamond-in-the-rough
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which drives up wages absolutely right
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so everybody's winning absolutely so I
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won't get into a bunch of political
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stuff there but you know at the end of
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the day it's it's good for everybody
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involved and the customer ends up
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winning because they're getting a better
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experience as well so you know I've said
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a long time ago that that I think if if
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I completely relocated to I don't know
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Boise Idaho and I worked at a McDonald's
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let's say I'm making minimum wage barely
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getting by I would want to find a you
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know a franchise or corporate owned
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store and I believe with all my heart
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and three four five six years I'm gonna
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be running stuff and to me that comes
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back to attitude and work ethic and so I
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think that there's opportunity even
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starting at the very very bottom of
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McDonald's or something if you're
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willing to work hard you got the right
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attitude there's gonna be owners and
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managers and at some point somebody's
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gonna notice and it may be someone that
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walks in the front door you know may not
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even be the restaurateur that really
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sees it in you but maybe a guy that
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comes there once in a while says you
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know what this kids always got a great
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attitude always working hard you smiling
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like I want this type of talent you know
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I could work with this young guy so
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that's another thing is you may not have
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a boss or management or what some
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somebody that's appreciating the right
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now but if you keep you keep grind and
15:33
you know and doing good work someone's
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gonna take notes
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and then you know that's where I think
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setting the expectations up front we
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during the interview process because
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you're absolutely right I tell anybody
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that comes to work as an hourly employee
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or even a manager you know I do not
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expect you to be here the rest of your
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life but if you like to be you know
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there's there's opportunity but you know
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here's what you need to demonstrate so
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that you know you can have a great
15:57
career path here but I don't want to
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hold anybody back sure so I think it's
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awesome you set up expectations you have
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that good conversation with people ahead
16:07
of time absolutely you know even coming
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back to dating or employees or this and
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that one of the things that I've learned
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over the years is set the expectations
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on the front end the best you can and
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this is where I'm at this is what I'm
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expecting this is what I'm not expecting
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from you and and gosh everything just
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seems to go smoother when you do that
16:27
and then you reinforce and coach it as
16:29
you know because every day people have
16:32
circumstances in their lives you know at
16:35
home and everything else and that's what
16:36
we you know try to tell people you know
16:39
it's hard to put those things in the on
16:41
the back burner when you come into work
16:43
but you got to be on point when the
16:45
customer comes in it's about being guest
16:47
focused and it's about caring yeah if
16:49
they can demonstrate you know those two
16:52
qualities you know yes I'll definitely
16:54
pay them well to to work in my
16:56
restaurants sure let me ask you this
16:58
what what are a few things that you love
17:00
to see in an employee and and I beat my
17:03
chest about initiative you know because
17:05
there's there's no shortage of great
17:06
ideas I've got lots of things that I
17:08
know will help or be good or this and
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that
17:11
it's but I can't physically do
17:13
everything right it goes back to caring
17:16
I mean you know I I don't really
17:18
necessarily need them to demonstrate
17:21
initiative I mean I want them to get
17:23
their tasks done and try to find
17:24
something else to do but again just just
17:27
demonstrate in care care for their
17:30
manager care for the other employees
17:31
care for the guests like we talked about
17:33
care for the quality of the product they
17:35
put out you know I think the ones that
17:38
demonstrate that are the ones that have
17:40
been with us you know the longest and
17:41
you know we definitely want to take care
17:43
of them mm-hmm I could definitely see
17:45
that so it's that's good advice to
17:47
anybody coming up
17:48
work hard and take care of the client
17:52
and like you said it'll get recognized I
17:54
mean in shame on me and my managers if
17:57
they don't recognize and reward that
18:00
kind of individual and if they go on to
18:02
someplace else you know that's our loss
18:04
sure and the one thing I'll say to that
18:06
is is maybe to that employee that's out
18:09
there in that scenario is is demonstrate
18:12
some patience as well I mean you know ed
18:14
Yancey has a lot going on sure you know
18:17
and he's thinking about this he's got a
18:19
CPA he's got tax stuff he's got the
18:21
switch and accounting departments he got
18:24
you know new credit card processing you
18:27
got equipment goes down you know the
18:30
camera systems not you know I can't get
18:32
online mm-hmm
18:34
you know business owners deal with so
18:37
much you know and so just demonstrate a
18:39
little patience if you don't feel like
18:41
you're getting that recognition to that
18:42
it might not happen in a week you know
18:45
so so coming back to that you end up
18:49
kind of Jersey Mike's kind of runs its
18:51
course yep and then so you you start
18:53
looking around well I left Jersey Mike's
18:55
no six we were living in New Jersey we
18:57
wanted to get back home Peter at the
18:59
time couldn't wrap his head around me
19:01
working remotely so I left Jersey Mike's
19:04
and did some consulting in the Philly
19:05
market was with a concept and then
19:08
Dunkin Donuts offered me a position to
19:10
handle the southeast for franchising so
19:13
came back home they moved me back in
19:15
North Carolina covered the southeast and
19:17
I've been back since 2006 and it was
19:20
when I came back to North Carolina that
19:22
I was pursuing char grill the hamburger
19:24
concept here in Raleigh and purchased
19:27
the rights to that concept and we we
19:30
grew to about five or six restaurants
19:32
from a franchise standpoint but we
19:34
launched in 2008 which mean when the
19:35
economy took a tail sir
19:37
and so you know we kind of just limped
19:40
along but we got a few restaurants open
19:41
and like I said I've got two of those
19:43
today that I own and operate and we have
19:45
franchises using Davidson and one at the
19:47
airport and one in Cary okay awesome and
19:50
I can definitely vouch for char grill I
19:53
mean great food definitely enjoy the
19:56
concept and amazing fries but the
19:58
burgers are really really good
19:59
I got steak trimmings in them they
20:01
cooked on an open Charlotte grill you
20:04
know it's been around since 1960 when I
20:05
was in high school I used to go there
20:07
and eat and that's what drew me back to
20:09
it mmm it making me hungry again so you
20:13
know the one thing I will say about this
20:14
is that as we start Gearin towards the
20:18
five things five things about choosing a
20:20
franchise is that you know from starting
20:24
I watched security from nothing even
20:27
knowing the industry even having lots of
20:29
experience in this you have to create
20:31
everything in processes and
20:34
presentations and standard operating
20:37
procedures and having your graphics made
20:39
up and just you having your contracts
20:42
done I mean just countless amounts of
20:44
things that you have to think about
20:45
whereas when you have a franchise
20:47
everything is kind of laid out for
20:49
you're not kind of its its laid out for
20:50
that or I guess a good franchise right
20:55
so with that you know having a franchise
21:00
is going to increase your chances of
21:02
success because they've you know just
21:05
see what I did do what EDD does you know
21:07
if there's any questions talk to Eddie
21:09
write you know talk to your your guy who
21:11
runs your territory who does this all
21:14
the time you know so with that I'll turn
21:17
this over T and let's go right into the
21:19
what are what are the five things that
21:21
people need to think about when choosing
21:22
a franchise well first and foremost you
21:24
have to have a passion for the product
21:26
or service that the franchise is
21:27
offering so with Jersey Mike's when I
21:29
started with them you know I walked into
21:31
the restaurant ate the food and fell in
21:33
love with it so you know if I sometimes
21:36
I'll get people that will come to me
21:38
that have never eaten at my restaurant
21:39
but they're just looking for something
21:42
they can invest in to get a return on
21:43
and that's really not my ideal candidate
21:46
so you really want to spend some time
21:47
you know doing your homework making sure
21:49
you know what what the product is you're
21:52
selling is something that you firmly
21:53
believe in mm-hmm and enjoy probably
21:56
absolutely you know the old saying when
21:58
you love what you do you never work a
21:59
day in your life you know if you hate
22:01
cooking or cleaning or customers exactly
22:04
no service you probably want to find
22:07
something else so that's number one
22:09
yep number two culture of the con
22:11
you know so you may from the outside see
22:14
you know some franchise that you really
22:17
like but then as you start to do your
22:18
due diligence there may be some things
22:20
about the the concept that you don't
22:22
like you know you may meet some of the
22:24
leadership and they may tell you it's
22:25
our way or the highway you know and
22:28
because you're entrepreneurial you know
22:30
that may not hit you right and you may
22:32
decide to go the independent route and
22:34
do it yourself you know so I think you
22:37
you know anybody investigating a
22:39
franchise it takes
22:41
I tell people three to six months to
22:43
make that decision because not only are
22:46
you doing due diligence on the concept
22:48
the concept was doing their due
22:49
diligence on you they want to make sure
22:51
especially in the restaurant business
22:52
that you have a hospitality gene that
22:54
you're prepared to coach and mentor
22:56
those hourly employees so it's a process
23:00
but you know both sides need to mesh
23:03
sure and they have to protect their
23:05
brand absolutely you know if there's you
23:07
know Johnny Rotten opens up a char grill
23:09
in Fayetteville and you know everybody
23:13
is talking bad about it all of a sudden
23:15
it makes you look bad in Raleigh you
23:17
know so that's that's a good point um
23:20
number three the leadership of the brand
23:22
you know get to know the CEO the chief
23:26
operations officer all the leadership
23:28
behind the brand because sometimes
23:30
concepts start and it may just be ed
23:33
Yancy you know he's he opened up one one
23:35
of something and it did really well and
23:37
all the people are interested in doing
23:38
it too but it may not be a lot of depth
23:40
or background in that one individual if
23:42
the brand is one individual it can be it
23:46
can be a short-lived franchise brand so
23:48
understand the background of the people
23:51
that are leading the brand and what the
23:52
support and processes are in place
23:54
that's a great great tip I would think
23:57
that you know a lot of businesses work
23:59
because of a specific personality or a
24:02
business owner or something and when you
24:03
remove that person the brand is not as
24:07
powerful exactly you know so that's a
24:09
great tip number four this is go sounds
24:12
stupid but make sure it's a money-making
24:14
model mm-hmm you know definitely you
24:16
know every franchisor is required to
24:18
give you a document called the franchise
24:20
disclosure document or FDD there's a lot
24:22
of information in there the item 19 is
24:25
the financial information but you also
24:26
want to speak to franchisees because the
24:30
franchisee always gonna put the best
24:31
looking information in their FDD that
24:34
makes the opportunity look attractive so
24:36
you want to peel the onion back and
24:38
speak with franchisees and make sure you
24:40
understand at a store level what that
24:42
concept is doing okay and what a
24:44
realistic expectations is you know so
24:47
you don't want to buy into the
24:48
pie-in-the-sky because you know you and
24:51
I both know there's always things that
24:52
come up that you're not expecting that
24:54
might not be in that you know rapport
24:56
absolutely that you're gonna have to
24:58
deal with and lastly number five well as
25:01
we've talked about throughout this
25:02
podcast you know being of people in in
25:05
the people side of the business you know
25:07
making sure that you have what I say I
25:10
call the intestinal fortitude so young
25:12
people starting out if they haven't
25:13
managed a lot of people it can be
25:16
daunting because they get tested you
25:19
know when you have 15 to 20 hourly
25:21
employees working for you they are going
25:23
to try every way possible to take
25:27
advantage you know no call no show
25:29
things like that sir you know it's great
25:32
if you've gotten some of that experience
25:33
under your belt but and you just may be
25:35
the type of person that can handle that
25:38
and can you know positively coach and
25:40
mentor those people to get the best out
25:42
of mmm so you know that to me is very
25:45
important I get guys that have been
25:47
working in corporate America their whole
25:49
lives and they've got you know big 401k
25:51
and now they want to do the next thing
25:53
in their life the next chapter in their
25:54
life and I say you know why the
25:57
restaurant business but if that's what
25:59
you want great what I would recommend
26:00
you to do is spend a couple weeks you
26:03
know behind the counter seeing what it's
26:05
all about and decide then if it's really
26:07
what you want to do because a lot of
26:08
people when they buy at a late stage in
26:11
life and get into the restaurant
26:12
business they they figure out real quick
26:14
then you know they don't it's not what
26:16
they were cut out to do so but some
26:19
people are you know get along famously
26:21
with it sure but uh but I just tell
26:24
people you know do your homework you
26:25
know spend some time immersing yourself
26:27
in the concept and the brand even if
26:29
it's like Jiffy Lube or
26:31
you know if if that's what you want to
26:33
do then spend some time in the unit and
26:36
understand what all goes on in a day in
26:39
the life from that franchisee and I
26:42
think mentally being prepared to do
26:43
everything that you have to do in that
26:45
restaurant absolutely you need to be the
26:47
expert you're right you're right you
26:49
need to you know a lot of people say I
26:50
don't want to do all the training you
26:52
know I got another guy that will do that
26:53
you want to be the expert in the
26:55
business so that you can recognize when
26:56
you walk in the things that aren't going
26:59
right that aren't being doing being done
27:01
well and so I think that's very critical
27:04
that you know you you know I tell new
27:07
franchisees plan to spend a year you
27:09
know every day doing the the job of
27:12
being a franchisee after a year you can
27:15
start developing more you built your
27:16
bench of people you coached and mentored
27:19
them so now you're prepared to grow with
27:21
you continue you don't get the
27:23
impression a lot of people think they're
27:25
gonna start a business and hire this
27:27
other person and they're gonna do it
27:30
yeah just gonna roll in and they're
27:33
gonna manage from home and maybe there
27:35
are opportunities out there like that
27:36
but I just I'm not willing to have my
27:40
success or failure rely on Joe who I'm
27:43
hiring because at the end of the day I
27:46
need to know everything going on in that
27:47
business and tillman Fertitta who you
27:51
probably know being the restaurant
27:52
industry in this and that billionaire
27:54
you know talks about when he walks into
27:56
a restaurant he's just starting to
27:58
things are popping at him left and right
28:00
and that's because he's in the game yes
28:01
guys a billionaire yeah you know and but
28:05
I think that that is a testament to what
28:08
you're talking about I know when you
28:09
walk into your restaurant you see the
28:11
trash cans full and you know what
28:13
there's three fries and the the foyer or
28:17
something that you know it probably
28:18
drives you nuts when you walk in you
28:19
know like am I the only guy in this
28:21
place that sees these fries on the
28:22
ground you know but any case I know you
28:26
got to get going here and and I
28:27
certainly appreciate you stopping in and
28:29
sharing some great content with us and
28:32
by the way if you're considering
28:34
franchises or consider and start your
28:37
own deal Edie would probably be open to
28:39
talking
28:40
help you out and other than that thanks
28:43
for joining us for another five things
28:44
podcast make it a great day
28:47
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28:54
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